1
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,480
Welcome back to Master the Marketplace

2
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,600
with Kaspien.

3
00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:15,680
Hello,

4
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,880
everyone, and welcome to another episode
of Master the Marketplace with Kaspien.

5
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,800
I'm very excited to bring you today
another special guest on the episode,

6
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,800
the founder and CEO, a conversion
rate optimization expert and founder

7
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,160
and CEO of Get Uplift,

8
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,840
Talia Wolf. Talia,
thank you for being on the show today.

9
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,440
Thank you for having me.

10
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,360
I'm excited to be here.

11
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,960
Now I'm not going to be doing justice
to your introduction.

12
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,000
High level.

13
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,480
I know you're an expert in this field,
but why don't you just tell our viewers,

14
00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:54,240
our listeners, a little bit about yourself,
your background and what do you do at

15
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,560
Get uplift?

16
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,240
Yeah, sure.

17
00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,800
So I've been in the conversion
optimization space,

18
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,200
I'd say,
for over a decade now, which is alarming.

19
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,120
And basically what I do is

20
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,240
I help businesses all over

21
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:17,200
different types of industries,
whether if it's B2C or B2B, e-Commerce,

22
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,960
SaaS, to optimize their websites
and their funnels

23
00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:23,560
to get more conversions
and sales and leads.

24
00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:27,920
And I do it using a methodology
that I developed over

25
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,640
a decade ago called the emotional
targeting methodology.

26
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,880
And we can get into that, I guess, soon.

27
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,560
But I teach my methodology to, on stages

28
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,320
and in different courses and programs
and really

29
00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:46,960
do that around the world.

30
00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:48,000
That's awesome.

31
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,680
And so, Talia,
just before we get into emotional

32
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,120
targeting, I'd love to, you know,
really deep dive on that a little bit.

33
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,960
Tell us a little bit about, you know,
what got you excited about conversion

34
00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,040
rate optimization?

35
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,080
Like, why did you choose this field?

36
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,760
You've been in the space for a while,
but what got you excited?

37
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,840
What got you started?

38
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:07,560
Yeah.

39
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,320
You know, it's funny
because back when I started,

40
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,800
there were like, there wasn't an industry.

41
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,320
There were like two companies
maybe doing conversion optimization.

42
00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:24,240
Most of my sales pitches were about like
why you even need to like invest

43
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,680
in conversion optimization versus
like sending more traffic to your website.

44
00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:32,600
So it's cool to see how mature

45
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,520
the industry is getting.

46
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,560
But for sure, when I started out,
I, when I started my career in marketing,

47
00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,760
it was in driving traffic and social media

48
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,760
and just really kind of more concerned

49
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,280
with likes and engagement
and driving traffic to websites.

50
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,600
And I find, I found myself

51
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,880
asking, OK, but what are the results
that I'm getting? Like,

52
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,240
how much of an impact am I actually,

53
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,200
do I have on my clients' websites,

54
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,640
their leads, their sales?

55
00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:12,560
And I didn't really know because back then
a lot of people were

56
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,160
using Google Analytics,
and even if they were,

57
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,200
they weren't really like didn't know
how to connect them with social media.

58
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,520
So what I would do
is essentially just like, make things up.

59
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,600
So I would test things in like Facebook
ads and change like images

60
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,560
or headlines or in the landing page,
because back then it was like FBML.

61
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,680
Like,
I think that's what it was called. Like,

62
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,760
you could like change things
within Facebook

63
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,360
and work on the landing page or whatever.

64
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,520
So I'd sit with the designer, and like, move
this here and let's change this button.

65
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:43,800
It was just making things up.

66
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,600
But I actually started seeing some changes,
and that was interesting.

67
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,280
And that's what got me like
diving into the whole world.

68
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,400
And I eventually opened my own agency
and built our own framework

69
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,120
for optimization and so on.

70
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:01,400
So it kind of started with just like,
“So how am I doing?” kind of question.

71
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,760
That's awesome, that's great.

72
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:06,840
And today,

73
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,520
would you say that the field has matured
a lot just over the years

74
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,440
and there are tons of different
agencies and,

75
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,360
out there and like,
what's your view of this space today?

76
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,640
It's a good question.

77
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:24,040
It's a lot more mature, so everyone knows
what conversion optimization is.

78
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,640
But I'd say that

79
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,080
there aren't a lot of agencies
offering conversion optimization.

80
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,400
There's different types of specialists.

81
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,800
There's a lot of marketing agencies
that say they do zero.

82
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,520
So they add it as part of what they do

83
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,560
because they know
it's important to say they do it.

84
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,160
But I think that right now,
the market is really kind of

85
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,040
saturated with a lot of people
that have a lot of good ideas

86
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,800
but not a lot of experience.

87
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,040
So I have quite a few

88
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,720
really good friends and colleagues
that do conversion optimization. And,

89
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,440
you know, we share a
lot of knowledge together, and it's great

90
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,880
to see that there's more interest
in conversion optimization.

91
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,520
There's a lot more people
asking about it, asking for it,

92
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,640
but there's a long way to go

93
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,800
to get to a good place within conversion

94
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,680
optimization
because it's such a harder discipline.

95
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,360
It's not like PPC or SEO
or even design or copy.

96
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,400
In order to actually be a conversion
optimizer, you have to know

97
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:37,880
all of what I just said.

98
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,560
Like you have to know
PPC and SEO and design and psychology and

99
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,760
and copy and UX and like, there's so much

100
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:51,720
that it's not as, as... I'm not saying
that PPC is easy, but it's not the same.

101
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,880
It's not as tactical,
and it's a little different.

102
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,480
So the market's there.

103
00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:57,520
It's interested.

104
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,600
It's a lot better,
but there's still so much to learn.

105
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:02,760
Right.

106
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,040
And Talia, maybe to step back
slightly,

107
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,000
you know, just for our audience,
that might be newer to this space.

108
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,440
You know, how would you define conversion
optimization just in your own

109
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,520
simple words for some newer folks
who are listening?

110
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,680
Yeah, for sure.

111
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,440
So essentially, conversion
optimization is the art and science

112
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,280
of optimizing your website

113
00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:31,920
or your landing page or your funnel
in order to turn more

114
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,760
of your existing traffic
into customers or leads.

115
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,760
So if, for example,
you're driving 1000 people a day

116
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,640
to your e-commerce website,
and every day ten people converge,

117
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,480
you would be able to do conversion
optimization.

118
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,040
You would be able to optimize your website
in order

119
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,640
to turn those ten people into 20
or 30 or 100.

120
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,080
That would be your goal.

121
00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,960
So you're not actually optimizing traffic,
you're not touching anything to do

122
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,400
with the Facebook ads, the Instagram, the
the display ads or search.

123
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,440
You're really just working
on optimizing the website itself

124
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,120
or the landing page itself or the funnel
itself, the copy, the visuals, the flow,

125
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,560
the content, and all of that
in order to drive more conversions

126
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,840
and turn more of that,
more of those visitors into customers.

127
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,560
I see. That makes complete sense.

128
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,600
So let's get a little bit into,
you know, emotional targeting

129
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,600
and the approach
that you and your firm have been using.

130
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,840
You know, maybe define for us
the emotional targeting approach

131
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,160
and then would love to also get into,

132
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,400
you know, the kind of results
that you've seen with your clients

133
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,120
that you have served
with this particular approach relative to

134
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,440
maybe others out there.

135
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,400
But yeah, let's get into that
a little more.

136
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,360
Yeah, for sure. I'm happy to.

137
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,160
So when I started with conversion
optimization, one of the first things

138
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,160
that I did is basically change
different elements on the page.

139
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,440
There wasn't a lot of content out there,
there wasn't a lot of information.

140
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,320
And in order to optimize my client's
landing

141
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,160
pages, I would basically change
different elements on the page.

142
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,160
So a call to action button color, a

143
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,520
headline, an image...

144
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,360
really kind of specific,
very tactical things,

145
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,800
and I never actually got the results
that I wanted.

146
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,120
So maybe it would increase conversions
a little.

147
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,680
Maybe it would kind of move the needle,
but not enough.

148
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,520
And what we found, my partners
and I, is that there was a piece missing.

149
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720
Now, as I mentioned back then,
there were like,

150
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,920
I could count on one hand
how many people were doing conversion

151
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,320
optimization in the world.

152
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:50,640
So a lot of our work was really just
building the foundations of everything.

153
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,640
And what happened is,
we went back to the drawing board

154
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,880
and asked ourselves, OK,
what impacts conversions? And ultimately

155
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,080
what impacts conversions is decisions,
the decisions that people make.

156
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,880
So in order to help people decide
and make better decisions and choose

157
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,520
my client's product, I need to understand
how they make decisions.

158
00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:15,360
I need to understand their psychology
and their brain.

159
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,680
And essentially what we did
is we devoured psychology books,

160
00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:24,480
and we really researched the whole process
of how our brain and our hearts

161
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,920
and how we people make decisions in life
about anything.

162
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,120
And what we uncovered
was something that a lot of psychologists

163
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:38,720
and neuroscientists knew for dozens
and dozens of years, which is emotion,

164
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,000
affects every single decision
that we make in life.

165
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,040
Whether if it's a business decision,
a personal decision,

166
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,000
there's always emotion involved,
and it is the biggest

167
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,000
part of our decision making process.

168
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,320
And funnily enough, the offline world,
when you think about advertising on

169
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,400
television and on radio, they've always known
that. They've always used emotion,

170
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,760
but it was impossible
to actually track any of that.

171
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,920
And here we are on the online world
where you have Google Analytics

172
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,320
and tracking, and people are just saying
like, these are all features.

173
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:14,280
This is our pricing.

174
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:15,200
Buy, buy, buy now.

175
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,600
Here's you know, here's the sale.

176
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,000
No one was using emotion.

177
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,960
No one was actually connecting
to customers

178
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,720
and speaking their language
and really understanding who they are.

179
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,840
Because the online world is so focused
on age, geographical

180
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,080
location, gender, your browser,
the device that you're using.

181
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,200
We have detached ourselves
from people. And emotional targeting

182
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,840
methodology is the process
that we built internally

183
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,280
in order to uncover people's
emotions, their intent, the real reason

184
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,760
they're on your website right now

185
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,040
and trying to convert
and trying to purchase something

186
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,960
and understanding their pains,
their challenges, the desired outcomes

187
00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,120
and the emotions that are essentially
guiding them through the purchase.

188
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,520
And we uncovered

189
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,520
that when we understood this,
when we knew exactly what their pains

190
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,120
were, what their challenges were,
and what their desired outcomes were,

191
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,000
we knew exactly what content
needed to be on the page.

192
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,280
We knew what we needed to say
to people in order to convert them.

193
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,720
We knew what they needed to feel
and see and read in order

194
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,880
to convert them into customers
and keep them because we were actually

195
00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,200
speaking to their minds and their hearts.

196
00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:29,280
And you were asking about results.

197
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,160
But the moment we switched to
this framework was just when we saw

198
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,400
ten times conversions for our clients
and ten times in retention.

199
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,480
It was just overwhelming.

200
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:43,520
And what's amazing
is that, you know, I did this

201
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,400
ten years ago, and we're still doing it.
And this is why companies come to us.

202
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:52,880
They understand that changing elements
on the page can only take you so far.

203
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,840
If you really want to run
meaningful conversion optimization

204
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,640
and really move
the needle and make changes that matter,

205
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,960
you have to understand
your customers better.

206
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,400
You have to get into their hearts
and their minds and understand

207
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,880
the emotions that guide them
in order to increase your conversions.

208
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,240
And so, how do you, how do you do that, Talia?

209
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,640
How do you get into the minds
and the hearts of customers?

210
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,000
I mean,
just to double click on the approach.

211
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,920
So a client signs you up
or you are working with them, like,

212
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,000
how do you get the data
around their customer?

213
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:24,440
How do you understand the customer?

214
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,640
Can you walk us through a little bit of that?

215
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,920
Of course. So essentially,

216
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,840
when it comes to optimizing your website,
it's very, very simple

217
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,520
to go into Google Analytics and uncover
where the problem is.

218
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:41,280
So, you know your home page isn't converting.
Your product page isn't working.

219
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,280
There's something in check out
that isn't working.

220
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,400
Or if you're a SaaS business,
then you know that something, you know,

221
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,120
there's a big drop off on your features
page or on your pricing page.

222
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,120
But knowing what changes to make

223
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,240
is the biggest challenge
with conversional optimization.

224
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:01,120
So what we do with any client
that we have... The first thing

225
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,320
we'll actually do is very in-depth,
meaningful customer research.

226
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,400
That means that we would do surveys

227
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,680
on your customers. We survey
your visitors, your prospects on the site,

228
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,600
to understand their pains and challenges,
right now, why they're on your website,

229
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,520
and survey your customers to understand
why they came to your website

230
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,760
and what the value was that they found.

231
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,120
We also interview customers
and actually speak to them

232
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,440
to understand them
and the words that they're using.

233
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,440
We do competitor analysis.

234
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,560
We do review
mining, social listening, and really,

235
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:41,240
what we're looking for
is the conversations, the reviews,

236
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,640
and the mentions of the emotional outcome,
the value

237
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,440
that people get from these products
that you're selling.

238
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,840
Of course, we pair this with data driven,

239
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,640
with data driven insights, meaning
we look at Google Analytics,

240
00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,800
we look at heatmaps, we do a UX
and heuristic analysis on the website.

241
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,680
So we have all the data of what's
not working and why it's not working.

242
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,040
But once we've done
all the customer research and we now

243
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,200
know, OK,
this is why people came to the website.

244
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,960
These are the things they've tried
before that haven't worked.

245
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,040
This is what they're hoping to achieve
once they buy from you.

246
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,960
It's so much easier for us to say, OK,
I know what's wrong.

247
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:24,960
The messaging is off here.

248
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,560
This is what's missing.

249
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,640
The hierarchy of the content
isn't working.

250
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,880
We need to shift things around
and rearrange things, or we need to add

251
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:32,720
more pages.

252
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,880
We need to change the menu
and the navigation.

253
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,960
We need to create a new email sequence
and so on and so on.

254
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,160
So this really does dictate

255
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,120
everything that we do using just, by

256
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,320
basically just speaking to customers
and asking them the right questions.

257
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,880
No, that makes sense.

258
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,760
And then once you have that data,

259
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,360
you...do you build out a,

260
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,120
like a hypothesis that, you know,
this is what we should potentially try out

261
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,640
and then do some AB testing?
Like what's

262
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,480
the process of coming to a solution
that might make sense?

263
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,400
Yes. So the way it works
is we inform ourselves by saying, OK,

264
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,560
we have a very big issue on our home page,
and this is something that happens to

265
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,400
a lot of e-commerce brands,
like they have a lot of products, or

266
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,600
maybe one of our clients
is based on biofeedback.

267
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,280
It's a wearable device
that is, there's different types

268
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,080
of wearable devices
you can use to help yourself.

269
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,560
And essentially, what happens is your home
page becomes like a dump for everything,

270
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,800
and you don't know how to guide people
and where to guide them to.

271
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,920
So what we do is after actually
doing all this customer research

272
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,480
and identifying, OK, the home
page is a big thing for customers.

273
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,280
We then say, we then say, OK,
our hypotheses is, in this case,

274
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:57,200
for our clients,

275
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,480
we said, OK,
our hypothesis is we need to explain

276
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,600
the science behind this product,
and we need to understand why

277
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,280
this is so important for your life,
and we build a story around it.

278
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,840
So we write the whole home page from
scratch, and we'll do a wire frame from it.

279
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,920
And we'll say this is our hypothesis.

280
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,120
Our hypothesis
is that if we mention X, Y and Z,

281
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,200
and if we tell the story in this way,
and if we use images in this way,

282
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,160
then we will increase conversions,
and we build the whole test out

283
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,080
the whole variation, and then we'll
test it out and see how it works.

284
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,960
And we'll do the same with product pages
and with the check out and so on.

285
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,840
So it's essentially,
this whole research helps identify

286
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,400
your unique selling proposition.

287
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,600
It helps identify who your personas are
and the actual people you're selling to,

288
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,160
and then it helps you optimize everything
on the website, every single page.

289
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:51,640
That makes sense.

290
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,160
And would you, how would,
what would you recommend rather to

291
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,240
say companies wanting to try this approach our
or wanting to get into

292
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,640
the emotional marketing approach?

293
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,640
Would you recommend that
they start with,

294
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,400
you know, maybe some customer surveys,
learning a little more about the customer,

295
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,000
one of the techniques that you mentioned...?
How would a company maybe listening to us

296
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,040
today, go back to their team and say,
Hey, we've got to go try this approach out?

297
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:15,880
Yeah, 100%.

298
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,240
I think that the best way to approach
it is to start with customer research.

299
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,400
And what you want to remind yourself
and your team is that you're not going out

300
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,720
there to ask them, like,

301
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,080
what is your favorite feature?
Or what is the favorite product?

302
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,240
Or Why did you come to our website today?

303
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,560
Or what do you think of our website
design?

304
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,400
That's not what we're asking.

305
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,400
We really want to understand the emotion
behind the purchase.

306
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,280
So even asking something as simple as...

307
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,760
Let's say you reach out to your customers,
and you say,

308
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,960
if you could no longer use our product,
what is the one thing you'd miss the most?

309
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,760
Like, that's
one of my favorite questions of asking.

310
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,560
And it gives you so much information
because they're not going to mention

311
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:57,200
features.

312
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,600
They're not going to mention
something specific to do with the product.

313
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,920
They're going to talk about the real value
that they see from it,

314
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,360
how they feel about it.
Or if you were to ask them questions

315
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:13,040
like if you were to recommend
this to your friend, what would you say?

316
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,680
What words would you use?

317
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,920
And that gives you not only testimonials,

318
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,040
but actual words
of how people describe your product,

319
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:25,000
how they describe your service, that
then you can use that on your website.

320
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,320
So starting from scratch, understanding

321
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,080
customers is always the way to go.

322
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:35,280
And just by asking those meaningful
questions, you'll be able to come up

323
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,520
with so many ideas
for optimization from the get go.

324
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:40,320
Right.

325
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,720
And if a company already has that
wealth of knowledge, they already been,

326
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,560
you know... With a lot of companies
that can't really talk to

327
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,600
their customers. They collect customer
data from some customer initiatives

328
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,320
and maybe to their sales team
and customer service teams, et cetera.

329
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,040
And they've got all that data.

330
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,920
What would you recommend
that they go and try out next?

331
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:01,200
You know, what's the first step

332
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,800
to go and try out the approaches
that you're probably talking about?

333
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,320
Yeah, I say, I think after you do
your customer research,

334
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,640
the point of the, for you is to understand,
OK, what are the top pains

335
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,520
that I'm addressing?

336
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,920
What are the top desired outcomes,
and what am I actually trying to say?

337
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,040
The point is to go to your website
and audit it and ask yourself,

338
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:24,800
Am I speaking about myself?

339
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,440
Am I just speaking about features?

340
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,720
And I just talking about the
the pricing of the sale?

341
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,760
Am I really just focusing on myself
versus the customer?

342
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,880
Because ultimately the customer
is the hero of the story and not you.

343
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,440
So you have to make sure with all
the knowledge that you've collected

344
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,880
that everything on your website
is making it about them.

345
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,080
For example, with my customer,
my client that I was mentioning before,

346
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,160
a lot of the copy they were using was
the number one device to do X, Y and Z.

347
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,680
This is the most, you know, award winning.

348
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,480
We don't need to say that.
The client doesn't care about that

349
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520
unless they go to the about section
where they're trying to learn more.

350
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,040
What they want to know is, OK,
what is the result?

351
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,280
What am I going
to get by using this device?

352
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,280
And it's the difference between saying
like 80% off versus

353
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,360
you will never have
this type of pain again.

354
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,040
You'll be able to sit in front
of your computer for hours and do X.

355
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:25,040
The whole idea of just really
communicating the value to your customers.

356
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,400
So the next step
would be auditing. Auditing

357
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,440
your funnels and your

358
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,160
emails and your website
and asking yourself,

359
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,080
Am I making it about myself
or am I making it about the customer ?

360
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,200
Can people see themselves on the page?

361
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,960
Can they see the real value on the page,
the emotional gain,

362
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,880
the emotional outcome
that they're going to get?

363
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,680
And or are you making it about yourself?

364
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,840
And if you can see that

365
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,840
you're making it about yourself,
which is what most companies are doing,

366
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,560
then that's when you want to say, OK,
I have hypothesis.

367
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,400
I'm going to change my header
of the homepage, and I'm going to introduce

368
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,240
a very customer focused headline,
a call to action, a visual

369
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,880
that enhances
what I'm trying to say in my messaging.

370
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,560
And let's see what happens.

371
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,920
So you want to go about it
in step by step and

372
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,440
you can try this out in
different ways and test it.

373
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,520
And so let's talk
a little bit about the testing, right?

374
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,640
Because you know what...

375
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,120
There's obviously a feedback loop
that you're expecting from the changes

376
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,600
that you are trying out.

377
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,360
And you know, and you want to
maybe look at the data

378
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:33,240
and say, Well, did my conversion improve
or not? Like what would you do talk...

379
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,960
How would you describe
the testing process?

380
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,640
What should we be looking for?

381
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,960
Is it just a,
you know, that my conversions on that page

382
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,400
improve or not and just use
that compared to some benchmark or...?

383
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,680
How do you think about the data
that we should be looking at?

384
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:48,680
Yeah.

385
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,840
So generally, like generally,
if you're testing,

386
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,720
you want to be using a test,
an AB testing tool, right?

387
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:01,040
So that would be something like,
just as an example, Google Optimize, VWO,

388
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,040
Optimizely.

389
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,440
There's so many right now,
but any of those are great and fantastic.

390
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,520
And the way it works of conversion
optimization

391
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,520
and why it's so powerful
is that you're testing things live.

392
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,440
Meaning it's
not that you're looking at your home page

393
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:18,000
now and saying,

394
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,920
OK, my home page doesn't work. I'm going
to switch it out for something else.

395
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,960
You're essentially going live
with two home pages.

396
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,320
And 50% of your traffic
will see your homepage,

397
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,200
and 50% of your traffic will see
the new variation you just created.

398
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,040
And you will see in real time in real life

399
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,200
how many conversions each one is getting.

400
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,080
So if you're an e-commerce site
and you're trying to drive home sales,

401
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,760
you go into, for example, Google Optimize,
and you look at your test

402
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,040
and you see, OK,
this variation had 10,000 visits.

403
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,320
This variation had 10,000 visits.

404
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,840
This had 150 sales.

405
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,840
This one had 250.

406
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,360
And you can see it.

407
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:01,280
Now you want to run this
for at least two weeks,

408
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,160
and you want to make sure
that you're looking at the right KPIs.

409
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,640
But most importantly,
you need to set KPIs.

410
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,920
For me,
when it comes to ecommerce specifically,

411
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,760
I look at sales.
I look at average order value,

412
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,400
and I also look at add to cart
if I'm talking about product pages.

413
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,160
So sometimes we'll see that a lot more
people are adding to cart.

414
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,160
So I can say,
Oh great, my product page is working

415
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,080
a lot better, but there's something wrong
with the checkout flow now.

416
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,520
Or if I'm checking a home, if I'm testing
a home page, a lot more people

417
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,160
are navigating to the direct product page
or to a category page.

418
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,840
Fantastic. My home page is doing a good work.

419
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,400
Now, let's move to the next one.

420
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,000
So it really is about understanding
what it is that you're

421
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,840
trying to achieve
and what you're testing on each page.

422
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,160
And it really depends. Like for SaaS,

423
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,680
it's going to be something
completely different.

424
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,400
You're going to be looking at LTV.
You're going to be looking at free trials.

425
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,200
You're going to be looking
at leads and demo requests.

426
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,960
So it really depends on what it is
that you are testing.

427
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,240
But within e-commerce,
I'm always looking at sales, add to cart,

428
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,160
and AOB, average order value audit.

429
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,680
Got it. And then have you seen all...

430
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,400
What is your read
on the current tools in the market?

431
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,280
The platforms that you mentioned around
Optimizely and others out there...

432
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,520
Are they lacking functionality
that might make sense in the scenarios

433
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,040
that you are talking about? Or do you feel like
one is better than the other?

434
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,800
What's your recommendation on this?
The toolset?

435
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,800
Yeah, I think it really depends on
where you are as a business.

436
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,680
I think
the tools are great for starting out.

437
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,320
And I think that any company, like
even big enterprises that I work with,

438
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,360
I preferred for them to work
with an existing tool.

439
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,840
A lot of companies,
when they get to a certain maturity,

440
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,160
they start developing their own AB
testing tools, and it becomes such a mess.

441
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,120
So when you have a tool
that already works, are there issues?

442
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,560
There's always issues.

443
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,280
There is data tracking, you know, like
even the difference between Facebook ads

444
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,280
and what you're seeing in your analytics
is always going to be a discrepancy.

445
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,040
So there's all sorts of things
that can be fixed and changed.

446
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,280
But ultimately, I think these tools
are really good for what you need right

447
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,160
now, especially if you're just
starting out in conversion optimization.

448
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,320
But again, it

449
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,280
also depends on how much traffic you have
and how many conversions you have.

450
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,600
Not everyone can run AB tests.
For example,

451
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,800
if you have less than 300 sales
a month on your website.

452
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,720
Then you probably shouldn't
be running AB tests.

453
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,360
And what I mean by
that is the rule for AB tests

454
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:44,120
is that, the minimum rule and my rule,
is that you want to run it

455
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:49,040
for at least two weeks. Two weeks
so that you can test your page

456
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,960
on each day twice.

457
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,800
So there hasn't been anything
like something happened on the news

458
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,520
or there was like something
weird that spiked on Tuesday.

459
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,880
And then you want to make sure
that it's repetitive.

460
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,800
And you want to have at least a hundred
to 150 conversions

461
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,000
per variation for it
to be statistical significant.

462
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,400
Now, a lot of people don't have that.

463
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,720
A lot of people don't have 300 conversions
a month. And that's OK

464
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,280
if you're just starting out,
and you don't have that, that's fine.

465
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:22,000
But then I'll say,
so don't waste your time AB testing,

466
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,960
but do spend a lot more time
on the customer research I just mentioned.

467
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,920
Because if you don't have 300 conversions
a month and you're just changing

468
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,080
your button from blue to red,
you're never going to get any results.

469
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,760
But if you make systematic
strategic changes on your homepage,

470
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,800
they're going to have a much bigger impact.
So you won't be able to see it live.

471
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,840
But OK, a month later, look at the results
and see what's happening

472
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,040
in Google Analytics.

473
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,880
It's not statistical significant.

474
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,520
You know, it's not like
the most statistical significant thing,

475
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,320
but it is a better way
and a better approach.

476
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,440
And you know that
you're making big strides versus just like,

477
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,800
versus just like changing a button,
which isn't going to get you anywhere.

478
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,400
Yeah, hopefully that answered it.

479
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,920
No, absolutely. Absolutely.

480
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,920
I mean, to that point, you know,
there are companies

481
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,080
that have been very stagnant
in their their marketing.

482
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,240
And would you
recommend the approach around

483
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,720
emotional targeting that you outlined
today as a starting point for them?

484
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,960
And, you know, understand
your customers, make a few changes.

485
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,440
You have this feedback loop going again.

486
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,960
What's your recommendation for someone

487
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,680
listening that's thinking,
My marketing is stagnant.

488
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,800
You know, I can't see any changes.

489
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,960
What should I go do right now?

490
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,080
What's the first one or two things
that they should go do right now?

491
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,480
Yeah, customer research is always
my go-to. Like I'm,

492
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,040
that would be my go-to
and also setting up some heat maps.

493
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:50,280
So tools like Lucky Orange and Hotjar
are great tools, and there's many more

494
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,560
that help you see screen recordings
and heat maps and scrolls and taps.

495
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,840
And that's a great thing for understanding
how people are using your website.

496
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,200
So if you're trying
to figure out what to do and you can't

497
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,800
come up with ideas, then yes,
customer research fast, super important.

498
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,040
But you can still do other things.
Like, it's not the only thing.

499
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:16,800
Setting up a survey in Typeform
or in Hotjar takes five minutes.

500
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,560
And you just put it on the website
and go or email out to your customers.

501
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,280
So you should be able to spend two hours
a month on like researching

502
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,520
your customers, collecting more data,
and slowly making those changes.

503
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,000
That's great. That's great, Talia.

504
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,920
And so, do I just do... Can I, you know, wrap up,
I... One question around

505
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,160
just getting your perspective on
the evolution of this, of the industry.

506
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,280
And I know we talked a little bit
about this front, upfront, but you know,

507
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,240
what trends
are you seeing in the industry as a whole?

508
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,960
And I know the industry is large in this.

509
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,160
E-commerce is, you know, there's
so much in e-commerce,

510
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,000
but let's, you know,
maybe focus on acquisition, conversion,

511
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,280
and kind of the funnel,
the marketing funnel that,

512
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,440
what trends have you seen evolving?

513
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,680
What's new age? What's coming in
the future that people should be aware of?

514
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,160
I would love to get your expert
opinion on that.

515
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:14,360
Yeah.

516
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,320
So it's funny
you ask that because I think that

517
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,880
one of the biggest things we're seeing,
and this isn't news,

518
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,600
is that there's overwhelmingly
so much competition

519
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,240
out there. And it's not even like
direct competitors anymore.

520
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,280
It's anyone sends a notification

521
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,280
to your phone, and your customer's
like out of your store in seconds.

522
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,840
So and ultimately,
you're competing with so much noise,

523
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,800
so many direct competitors, so much social
media. There's just so much going on.

524
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,320
So what I'm seeing is that the companies

525
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,920
that really focus on the customer

526
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,400
and make a customer, build a customer
driven business,

527
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,320
those are the ones that are going to go
for the long run.

528
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,320
Those are the ones that are going
to be able to keep customers coming back

529
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,840
and to really connect with them well.

530
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,200
Because it's our job as marketers
to essentially grab people's attention

531
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,160
from whatever it is they're doing
and come to our website

532
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,160
and stay on our website
and purchase from our website.

533
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,960
So if you are doing
what everyone else is doing, if you're like,

534
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,640
copyying, blindly copying your competitors
because they know what they're doing,

535
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,320
or if you are just trying to follow
best practices and just like doing

536
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,840
the same thing over and over again,
you're not really going to get anywhere.

537
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Ultimately, what people are looking for
are, is help from you

538
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,600
because I myself as a consumer, I'm
also overwhelmed.

539
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,760
So I'm looking for the brands
that understand me,

540
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,800
that catch me, that I look on the website,
I read the headline, and I'm like, Yes,

541
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,240
that's me. OK, that's what I need.

542
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,920
I don't care about the sale at first.

543
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,560
I don't care about your features at first.

544
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,400
I want to just know
I'm in the right place.

545
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560
So when you ask me about, OK,
what are you seeing in the future?

546
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,600
I think that the more personalized
you can get, the more specific and direct

547
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,880
you can get about who your exact customer
is, the better chances

548
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,600
you have to growing and scaling
and getting bigger.

549
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,840
You don't have to speak to everyone.

550
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,000
You have to speak
to your specific customer.

551
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,560
And you can do this
with so many different technologies.

552
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,200
And I know that everyone around us
is preaching us to be data driven

553
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:27,640
or whatever.

554
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,840
But ultimately, data is data
that the people are...

555
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,040
There's people behind the screens.
They're not cash machines.

556
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,680
So we really need
to ultimately focus on them.

557
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,000
And I think that that is the future.

558
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,520
The future is going back to foundations
and focusing on people.

559
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:45,760
Yeah, I know.

560
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:46,520
I think you're right.

561
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,800
I think a lot of people get excited about,
you know, new platforms

562
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,120
and new marketplaces
and all the different distribution

563
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,440
channels, which I'm
I'm sure many will come up with this talk

564
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,640
about the metaverse
and a lot of that as well.

565
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,200
And all great, right?
Like all new opportunities available

566
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,160
for brands to sell their products
or distribute their products.

567
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,520
But I think you made a really good point,
which is you can't

568
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,640
forget the fundamentals of business,
which is to understand your customer.

569
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,840
Are you providing them
with the right value proposition?

570
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,920
And you know, and if you are, are you truly

571
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,840
targeting them with a product
that makes sense for that segment?

572
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,720
And those fundamentals will not change
irrespective of the distribution channel.

573
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,360
100%.

574
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:28,080
Excellent. Great.

575
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,280
Well, Talia, it was an absolute pleasure
for our folks listening on the show.

576
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,880
Is there a way
that they can get in touch with you?

577
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,320
What's the best way that, you know, folks,
if they want to improve their,

578
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,200
you know, conversion optimization,
if they want to get some feedback,

579
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,040
some work from you done, what's
the best way that they can contact you?

580
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,120
Yeah, our website getuplift.co.

581
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,320
There is a ton of free content
in there and free guides and worksheets

582
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,520
and everything you need in there
and courses you can take,

583
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:00,800
and you can hire us there.

584
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,960
So it's all on that website.

585
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:04,920
Excellent. Great.

586
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,560
Well, Talia,
thank you again for being on the show.

587
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,880
We really appreciate your time.

588
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,360
I certainly learned a bunch myself
in the show.

589
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,560
So again, folks, thanks for joining us
today on another episode

590
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,000
of Master the Marketplace,
and I'm sure we will see you very soon.

591
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,680
Thank you, Talia. Thank you for
being on the show.
Thank you.

592
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,200
Through conversations with experts
in online retail,

593
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,040
with years of marketing compliance
and inventory management experience,

594
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,360
we seek to empower our listeners
to master the marketplace.

595
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,040
Thanks for listening.

596
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,040
We hope to see you next time on Master
the Marketplace with Kaspien.